Panther First Impressions, Pros and Cons Options

[giantmike]

I guess I can add my thoughts on Panther to the mix. I installed Panther on three machines friday night, an iBook 500, iBook 600, and G4 466MHz. I will be installing it on my Dual 2GHz G5 tonight.

First thing I noticed is how slow the install was. Each machine took around 2 hours. I'm betting the G5 install will be slightly faster

But after the install, everything does seems speedier, especially finder operations. Speaking of the finder, I like the new finder windows. I find them much easier to and fast to navigate.

I like the new threaded view in Mail, really cleans thign up.

Exposé rocks! Other than playing around with it, I have used it a few times to clear the way for the desktop. I don't think I'll use it that much to switch applications, as that is what the dock and command tab is for.

Font book is very helpful. It nice to have the ability to disable all those foreign language fonts, without having to worry about messing something up if I went around deleting the ones I didn't want. Having those fonts disabled speeds up font menus and such.

The open and save dialog boxes are new. They are eariser to navigate for the most part, but doesn't allow you to move backwards all the way through the disk heirarchy. By this, I mean if you start at you home folder (possibly by using the shortcuts on the left), you can only go that far back. You have to click on the hard drive shortcut if you want to navigate everything.

Goiodbye DropStuff. NOw Apple allows you to compress (archive) files and folders directly in the finder using gzip format.

PDFs. I can now navigate PDFs on my iBook 500 MHz with Panther, as fast, or maybe even faster than I could using Jaguar on my Dual 2GHz G5!!! Preview is now super fast! Also, the bility to copy text is awesome! I view approximately 3-10 different PDFs every day, on average, so this is a reason to upgrade in and of itself.

Some things I don't like:

The blue box that is drawn around a highlighted icon. I always hated that in IE, and hate it here too. I can't find a way to turn it off.

The Process Viewer and CPU monitor have been combined into the Activity viewer. While the application itself is nice, it doen't allow a nice way to keep a CPU monitor visible. I always kept the little floating bar in the lower left hand corner open, with high transparency, so it doesn't interfere with anything. With this new application, this is not possible.

[kelly]

Thanks GM.

[giantmike]

A couple more things I just noticed:

Disk Copy is gone! But no fear, it's just been integrated into Disk Utility. Unlike the CPU monior/Process Viewer merge, this one is a good one. Both Disk Utility and Disk Copy work well together, and the new application is easier to use.

Key Caps is gone too! You can get to it in a convoluted way, using the International System Preferences, but that is not helpful. What is helpful is the new character palette. You can use the Edit Menu to select Special Characters in some Applications, and this will bring it up. But better yet, in the International System Preferences, under the Input Menu tab, there is an option for the Character Palette. If you select the box to "Show the input menu in the menu bar." you can easily open the character palette in any application.

The floating palette contains all the special characters, organized by category. Simply find the one you want, and drag it to your document. Much easier than Key Caps in my opinion.

Also, the new version of Safari animates many more animated gifs. However, this takes more CPU power.

System Profiler has a new, updated look. This new look is much more refined, and seems to provide more information.

Navigating the iDisk is much faster.

Connecting to servers is very different. For some, it may be confusing, but is better in my opinion. For instance, if you use the Connect to Server menu item, it brings up a no frills dialog box, that show not show much (you can type in server addresses, see recent servers, and see a list of your favorites). However, if you open a Finder Window, and click on the Network, you will be presented with a list of all servers on your Netowrk. Very cool!

[Gary S]

Thanks GM,

Can you elaborate on the "gzip format"? I take it Stuffit Expander is still required to open downloads and such....

[Mrious_be]

Interesting, thanks Mike

[giantmike]

Gary: gzip is an open source compression standard. By the looks of it, Stuffit Expander will still be needed to open most Compressed files, but having this tool built into the OS is a start.

[nikki]

Installed panther friday nite and put it through its paces and have to say, I love it.

Its very stable "no beach ball yet" and faster.

Expose is my favorite thing.

MP 800 G4 tower.

[chuckwagen]

Do you think it's worth $120?
Not much bang for the buck. I agree about the slow install. Somehow I lost IE 5.2.3...

[giantmike]

The slow install didn't seem so slow on my G5, only 20 minutes.

I got it for $20, but do think it would be worth $120. The new Preview is almost worth that! Then there is exposé, faster finder, etc. I think it's easily worth that price.

[JohnKentucky]

Install on my brother's dual G5 was super fast compared to my powerbook 667!

IE 5.2 is there in the install..it is an option now!

I love panther!

[Bill]

Heard Apple spent a half billion dollars in developing Panther.
Not sure if that is true but if it is, yeah, $129 sounds about right.

[pendragon]

Some first thoughts & impressions-

First, I did an Upgrade Install and that went fine. But, Repairing Permissions breaks the printer connectivity and I must restart. This problem is apparently resolved by doing an Archive & Install, but then the folks who did that are having other problems, such as Palm not working. So for the next few weeks or until this all gets sorted out, I will just shut down & restart my computer every two weeks or so. While this is hardly a problem, it is a condition that should not be necessary-even for Pioneers!

I am not sure Panther is faster per-se, but it seems snappier in that rebooting, application launching, window opening, finding, etc. may indeed be quicker, but if the code is such that real life processing is faster, I just don’t know.

I already miss a few of my favorite third party extras, such as MaxMenus, LabelsX (I think that haxie was far superior to Apple’s label coloring system.) Menu Master, and Window Shade; and look forward to Panther compatible releases.

That all said, there are just so many improvements: scheduling of startups & shutdowns, Expose, Font Book, and all the points made above.

I suppose that by the first of the year, 10.3.1 will be released, the third party developers will have all their apps compliant and things will be even better.

Yeah, I wish the printing/permissions problem were resolved, but even in light of that, Panther is a fine product and well worth the cost.

[bil207]

Harv,

I was having problems with my Epson printer after repairing the permissions in Panther. I reinstalled Panther using the option to "Archive & Install" and customized the installation by only installing the Epson printer packages #1 and #2.
After the install, when I repaired the permisssions ther were none of the "Group differs on ./private/etc/cups/certs" that needed repairing and all is now well with my Epson.

[pendragon]

Thanks Bill, I may well do as you suggest unless I learn of a solution between now and Wednesday.

Harv

[kps]

As per my prediction, I knew I couldn't keep my hands off of Panther for long. Went to my local Apple dealer today and picked up a copy...along with a 120g HDD so I could back up my 12" powerbook. I can't believe how good I am to Apple and my local economy.

So, here I sit typing this in Panther.

Prior to the installation, I backed up the PB, ran DiskUtility to verify and repair the disk, repaired permissions and brewed a pot of coffee. The installation took just over an hour. I failed to take my own advice of months, years past and foolishly installed all the "other" languages even though I chose custom install. Serves me right for rushing.

Chose the "upgrade" install and all went "well" except when the installer quit after Disk 3, the cursor was frozen...no trackpad use. I unplugged my Logitech mouse from my tower, plugged it into the USB port on the PB and I was back in business to finish the registration. Which, by the way, failed because I had no network due to the computer insisting that had no Airport card installed.

This called for a reboot with both fingers crossed...okay, no need to be too dramatic. It rebooted and all was fine. Network, trackpad, ...oh wait, except for the time and date...waaaay out...sent me back in time to 1969...or was it 1901...

Seriously, so far it's working well, I do notice a substantial speed boost on my G4/867 and that alone is worth it. Harv, haven't tried printing yet, I'll let you know about that issue. I took bil207's advice and just installed the Epson drivers 1 & 2.

Okay, that's it for now...back to Panther.

[Bruce_F]

Kevin,

I made the same mistake of not customizing my Panther install. I did wonder why the installer said that it would require over 1.6 GB of additional hard disk space, but not enough to stop and investigate.

Fortunately, DeLocalizer works in Panther! I removed the foriegn language stuff and gained the space back.

For all who upgrade to Panther: Remember to Repair Permissions afterwards!

On that same note... I'm kind of dissappointed in how fast the permissions get messed up in Panther. I have run DFA at least three times at various points and each time the permissions are a mess.

[kps]

Looked into the permissions issue. On running the verification test, the report indicated the same group problem as Harv pointed out. Should be gid 26, is gid 0...etc. I figured that if it brakes my printer, I'll just do as Harv or I'll create a group with the ID of 26 in Net Info ...blah, blah...whatever.

So I run Repair Permissions anyway. The USB Epson CX5200 is connected to my G4 tower running OS X 10.2.8, USB File Sharing is on in both systems, all connected wirelessly with a D-Link router. To my amazement, the printer worked with the new permissions and over the WiFi LAN.

Harv, I don't know what to tell you at this time, don't know enough about this yet.
What's your exact set up?

[kps]

Bruce_F, I had very little (aside from the CUPS GIDs) in terms of permission repairs. It repaired an iTunes "package info" file. No biggie here, nothing writes to this file anyway, but almost nothing else. Time will tell, I guess.

[Audone]

I have exactly the same problem as Harv ... mine is an iMac 500, and Epson 640 printer.

Just installed today and I think I love this new operating system. My only dislike, so far, is a dock with a background shadow. I got so used to it being transparent that this seems very odd. I'm sure somebody, somewhere will come up with a solution.

[pendragon]

KPS, My configuration: DP 800, 1.25 MB RAM, Epson 740 (USB) Upgrade Install over what I am sure was a clean 10.2.8. No scanner, other USB or firewire devices/peripherals of any kind (unless one counts a graphite Airport).

The Permissions/Printing issue I mentioned has been noted my many others and is discussed in some detail on the Apple Discussion Boards. Almost all report no success unless an Archive & Install is done. Then, all is normal. I called Apple and the only "solution" they have is to reinstall via Archive & Install. Maybe tomorrow I'll just go ahead and invest another two hours.

Curious and curiouser.

Audone, Unsanity's Clear Dock is now Panther compliant.
http://www.unsanity.com/haxies/cleardock/
FWIW, I am using it without problem.

Harv

[Audone]

You just made my day, Harv! Thanks!!

If you have good succes with the new install, maybe I'll go that route, too .... not particularly looking forward to that.

[kps]

I'm glad I don't have this issue with the Powerbook, maybe it'll manifest itself if I upgrade the G4 tower, but why...when so many others and including you have this problem? I doubt it's hardware related...earlier Macs vs. later models...is there a common denominator from what you gathered on Apple's site, except, that all involved did an "upgrade" install?

[CyberPet]

I'm thinking... did you have your printer hooked up when you did repair your permissions?

Cuz after I installed Panther I did run repair permissions, then I realized I should perhaps check if I could print too and not just look happy about a working system, so I plugged in my Epson and it was recognized directly. Only printer I had to add was the HP LaserJet 2100TN we have on the network as an IP-printer.

Both printers works great! And even more amazing was the speed of the prints for some reason. OK it wasn't the most high resolution picture I printed out but both the Epson Stylus Photo 870 and the HP did print it out in speeds I've never experienced before from Preview.

Although, from Harv's experience I will keep an eye on things with the Epson.

kps, a tip for you: If you do suffer from the fans running a lot on your PowerBook after the install, try Drive 10 and do a defragmentation. That did the trick for my machine and I hardly hear the fans anymore, only while working hard in Photoshop.

[kps]

No problems yet, Petra. PB is running very quiet, but thanks for the defrag tip.

[gapstr]

...I got it for $20....

Where and how, please?

A. G.