How to get domain name back? Options

[jepinto]

If ther's typing mistakes, my apologies in advance, I've tried to see if the middle finger of my left hand can do without a knuckle today, so things are rough right now.

My friend fell for one of those "if you don't renew your domain now, you'll lose it" mailings. Her domain name is now held by Domain Registry of America She has had no contact with them since she fell for the letter scam.

Questions
How hard will it be for her to get control of the name back?
She is ready to change web hosts. How does she do it? There appear to be no way for her to do anything.
From what I can read, the only way the owner of the name can transfer away from droa is to file a complaint with ICANN. Am I misreading this?

How can people fall for these scams after all the bad press?

[krissel]

To be clear, did she merely renew her domain name through that registry? That is, they hold the registration for her domain?

Don't they have a control panel so she can go in and manage her domain? She should be able to go to another registrar (like GoDaddy) and apply to transfer the domain to them. She would also have to set up the domain to be free to transfer and be able to respond to the emails that the new registrar will send to her during the transfer process.

I've moved registrations several times. It takes a bit of time and some setup but reading through the policy page at Domain Registry, the only problem would be if there is a dispute in progress about domain ownership. That puts restrictions on the transfer timing.

[jepinto]

they hold the registration, are the admistatrive contact and the technical contact.

They've not sent her any control panel info.

Registration Service Provided By: Domain Registry of America
Contact: support@droa.com
Web:http://www.droa.com

Domain name: ******.com

Registrant Contact:
*******
Private Registration
2316 Delaware Ave Suite #266
Buffalo
NY, 14216-2687 US
866-434-0212
866-434-0211
privacy@droa.com

Administrative Contact:
*****
Private Registration
2316 Delaware Ave Suite #266
Buffalo
NY, 14216-2687 US
866-434-0212
866-434-0211
privacy@droa.com

Technical Contact:
*****
Private Registration
2316 Delaware Ave Suite #266
Buffalo
NY, 14216-2687 US
866-434-0212
866-434-0211
privacy@droa.com

It's ok, tell me if I'm more concerned than I need to be.

[krissel]

It looks like she renewed with privacy which lists the registrar rather than the real owner to avoid having her information open on the web.

How exactly did she register this? I've gotten those things in the mail but just shredded them.

What she needs to do is contact them with whatever means they provided when she signed up and get a username and password to her account (or the numbers and email on that page). From there she can control things. However she will probably have to wait a period of time before she can move the account.

From DROA:

To transfer your domain name(s) you should first login to your account to lock or unlock your domain name(s) and/or to obtain the EPP "AuthCode" which is required to transfer domain services in an EPP registry (such as .org). Alternatively, you should contact your us to have your domain name(s) services locked or unlocked or to obtain the EPP "AuthCode." Only the registrant and the administrative contacts listed in the WHOIS information may approve or deny a transfer request. Without limitation, domain name services may not be transferred within 120 days of initial registration, within 120 days of a transfer, or 120 days of renewal, if there is a dispute regarding the identity of the domain name registrant, if you are bankrupt, or if you fail to pay fees when due. We will follow the procedures for both gaining and loosing registrars as outlined in ICANN's transfer policies. Transfer requests typically take five business days to be processed.

From GoDaddy's agreement:

4. Transfers of Recently Renewed Domain Names
You understand that if you are transferring a domain name that has been recently renewed there is the potential that the renewal year will be lost. The renewal year will be lost if: the domain name was renewed during the forty-five (45) day grace period after the expiration date had passed; and forty-five (45) days have not yet passed since that expiration date. You understand and agree that Go Daddy is not responsible for this lost year and that Go Daddy will not credit that year to your domain. You will need to review the registration agreement you have with your previous registrar to determine if you are due a refund or credit for the lost year. Please contact your previous registrar if you have any questions about the lost year. You understand and agree that Go Daddy will not intervene in the recovery of any such lost registration years that occur during the transfer of your domain name.

[sandbox]

How hard will it be for her to get control of the name back?

She didn't loose it, she moved it and that will cost her another contract expense if she moves again.
The registry includes server space, the information should be on her agreement and they should move her domain to their server.

She is ready to change web hosts. How does she do it?

She calls ASO or anyone else and has her domain moved, but since she's getting it for free, packaged in the registry why would she want the extra expense?

GoDaddy has the same promotions, as do others. You agree and authorize the registry to hold your domain name and as an extra bonus they give you server space. It might be a good deal? What's the numbers??

[Paddy]

Er, Kris & Jennie, these people are scum of the earth.
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2003/12/domainreg.shtm
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/01/06/co...domain_slammer/
http://ask.metafilter.com/63781/Who-will-s...stry-of-America
(yes, years later, they're still at it...but you know that already)

http://forums.alwayswebhosting.com/showthread.php?p=8288

How do I get my money back?The Federal Trade Commission stipulated that upon consumer request DROA must refund any payment remitted to them, and compensate eligible consumers an additional $6.00 per domain name transfer to assist with fees incurred when transferring back to their original registrar. If you file a complaint with the FTC you may be entitled to additional redress if you experienced any loss of business or business expenses due to DROA’s scam. Contact Domain Registry of America at (866) 434-0212 or via Email at support@droa.com. They must credit your credit card within seven business days according to the ‘Truth In Lending Act’ (TILA).

In the future, make sure she pays the $9.99 for private registration. If the domain name is important, well, she'll have to fight DROA. Start with the FTC, contact DROA and let them know you know about the FTC ruling. Don't take no for an answer.If DROA has her credit card number and has billed her for anything, then have her tell the credit card company that she's been the victim of fraud and do a charge back. Vendors HATE it when you do that - they get slapped with charge-back fees. (and if it happens enough, the credit card companies will no longer deal with the merchant...surprised it hasn't happened with DROA)

More:http://blog.forret.com/2004/12/domain-regi...f-america-scam/ (this is funny - the blogger got a cease & desist letter from DROA!)

The guy who owns DROA has been a scammer for a while - DROA isn't his only fraudulent venture, apparently (same numbered company...different scam): http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2002/05/29/In...ngs_020529.html

SB, this is NOT a good deal - her domain didn't need renewing. That's the whole scam. See all the links I posted. Do not give these people a red cent - they don't deserve it. And they're ridiculously expensive - $30 a year just for registration - they don't host! It's the equivalent of telephone slamming as far as I can tell.

[krissel]

Paddy, I know they are scammers. I've received those letters every year in the spring a couple months before my domains were to expire. They even sent them to my parents fax because I once used their fax number for something. My Mom got all excited and called me up telling me I had only a few days to renew, blah, blah. I laughed of course and filled her in.

Those letters can be very convincing to people who are not aware. Similar ones show up claiming to advertise my business or scan my website for security and optimization. Yeah, sure, all for a fee of $184 for 6 months.

As to the FTC ruling, apparently it was not finalized and is still in limbo so they continue. From one of your links:

Is there an actual, answerable question here, or are you just venting and seeking commiseration?

Yes, it's in the OP:

is there any kind of action/suit against the company now? If not, why not?

I'm not a lawyer and this is not professional consultation, but I do have access to a (massive) database tracking internet law happenings and the last I see of DROA is that FTC injunction (approved by the FTC) going back to the court for approval. I'm assuming that this is still in litigation 4 years later in the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York.

I've searched that court's site and seen nothing new, but the presiding judge is still there so presumably they're still in litigation. But that FTC proposed final judgment had a huge amount of provisions for making restitution for people defrauded and monitoring the company for future bad practices.

I guess it's just slow in getting that final judgment.

Unless there's something in the PACER or Westlaw databases which I don't have access to, that's the state of things.
posted by cowbellemoo at 11:58 AM on May 31

FTC suit is in civil court and seems to be the FTC-led equivalent of a class action suit brought by private citizens. .

So her best bet now may be to try to cancel any payment. Though while this may save her money it won't get control of her domain back unless she follows the transfer policy. If she gets involved with ICANN it may take her forever to get through the dispute process.

[Paddy]

I missed that bit, Kris.

In this link it seemed like all that was required was the judge's signature. FOUR YEARS and still no sig? That's pathetic.

Still worth a call to the FTC, IMHO, both to complain and to find out the status of things. But yes - if all else fails, ask for a charge-back. (did she actually give these people her cc number?)

[krissel]

Forgot. I found this in the DROA agreement. While most registrars have the hold harmless stuff, I think the bond requirement for defending them is unbelievable.

IF LAWSUIT(S) ARE THREATENED: If we are sued or threatened with lawsuit in connection with Service(s) provided to you, we may turn to you to indemnify us and to hold us harmless from the claims and expenses (including attorney's fees and court costs). Under such circumstances, you agree that you will, upon demand, obtain a performance bond with a reputable bonding company or, if you are unable to obtain a performance bond, that you will deposit money with us to pay for our reasonably anticipated expenses in relation to the matter for the coming year. Such deposit will be drawn down as expenses are incurred, with all account notices sent to the WHOIS contact information provided in association with your domain names and/or account. We shall not be obliged to extend you any credit in relation to such expenses and we may terminate the Services for a failure to make or renew such a deposit. We will return any unused deposit upon the later of one year from deposit or the conclusion of the matter.

[sandbox]

Paddy, I don't know that she is not agreeable with the contract she signed, Jen only indicated that she hasn't seen the web space. DROA is a re-seller for http://www.enom.com/ which is an American company in Washington, who in my opinion are the responsible party. Secondarily I would write to the last holder of the domain name and see why they released it to DROA. Push the issue from a victims position with the responsible parties. The last domain holder had a responsibility to protect the domain and only release it to legal registrars, and eNom has a responsibility to it's license as a registrar.

The last registrar released the domain to a know criminal and eNom continues to use know criminals to exploit the public. If DROA actually has space available that Jen's friend has not been able to locate, the issue may go away. Jen does not say that the domain account was not ready for renewal, it could very well have been?

If I had the domain name I might be able to digg for a location.

Jen did say that her friend was looking for her server location so my guess is that she bought the package that included server space. eNom needs to be held accountable under their license, DROA has no license.

[krissel]

This is from the DROA's domain agreement:

To transfer your domain name(s) you should first login to your account to lock or unlock your domain name(s) and/or to obtain the EPP "AuthCode" which is required to transfer domain services in an EPP registry (such as .org). Alternatively, you should contact your us to have your domain name(s) services locked or unlocked or to obtain the EPP "AuthCode." Only the registrant and the administrative contacts listed in the WHOIS information may approve or deny a transfer request. Without limitation, domain name services may not be transferred within 120 days of initial registration, within 120 days of a transfer, or 120 days of renewal, if there is a dispute regarding the identity of the domain name registrant, if you are bankrupt, or if you fail to pay fees when due. We will follow the procedures for both gaining and loosing registrars as outlined in ICANN's transfer policies. Transfer requests typically take five business days to be processed.

IMO it would be best for her to try to follow the established procedure for transferring her domain back to wherever she had it before. But she will have to wait the required period. At worst she will have only ended up paying an exorbitant fee for renewal, which is of course how they make their money off unsuspecting people.

[jepinto]

not typing much, hard with one hand-dang you don't miss them till they're gone

Thank y'all.

No, it was a check.

I will have her contact them for a control ppanel. She can't remember when she did it, and she is gone for two weeks, so it's moot (ish) now.

I'm glad I wasn't "just seeing bogeymen under the bed".

[tacit]

Forgot. I found this in the DROA agreement. While most registrars have the hold harmless stuff, I think the bond requirement for defending them is unbelievable.

IF LAWSUIT(S) ARE THREATENED: If we are sued or threatened with lawsuit in connection with Service(s) provided to you, we may turn to you to indemnify us and to hold us harmless from the claims and expenses (including attorney's fees and court costs). Under such circumstances, you agree that you will, upon demand, obtain a performance bond with a reputable bonding company or, if you are unable to obtain a performance bond, that you will deposit money with us to pay for our reasonably anticipated expenses in relation to the matter for the coming year. Such deposit will be drawn down as expenses are incurred, with all account notices sent to the WHOIS contact information provided in association with your domain names and/or account. We shall not be obliged to extend you any credit in relation to such expenses and we may terminate the Services for a failure to make or renew such a deposit. We will return any unused deposit upon the later of one year from deposit or the conclusion of the matter.

This does not mean that you can't sue DROA. It means that if you host a Web site, and because of your Web site someone sues (for example, if your Web site has proprietary information or defames someone or has copyrighted material on it or something), it is YOU, not DROA, who is responsible.

The key is this part: IF LAWSUIT(S) ARE THREATENED: If we are sued or threatened with lawsuit in connection with Service(s) provided to you, we may turn to you to indemnify us...

[antony]

I just received a similar scam the other day from a company called "Domain Renewal" (domainrenewalonline.com)



It is interesting to note that...

I got my .org domain from Go Daddy for US$ 8.99 per year (+ 20 cents ICANN fee). The price from (domainrenewalonline.com) is a staggering US$ 79.95 per year.

Further,

When Domain Renewal extends your domain no information will be changed in the “Whois” information section.

The expiry date information is part of WHOIS, it translates that US$ 79.95 will give you nothing.

[Paddy]

Where did you find the price, Antony? Just had a look at their web site and the price isn't listed anywhere.

The English translation of their site is atrocious - should be a red flag right there, along with the ridiculous price. Seems they're operating out of Belgium and/or the Seychelles, and they've been busy boys lately, judging by the number of comments on blogs and forums.

Yet another scummy reason for private registration.

[antony]

Where did you find the price, Antony? Just had a look at their web site and the price isn't listed anywhere.

Just type any domain into the box, and you will get the price.

Seems they're operating out of Belgium and/or the Seychelles, and they've been busy boys lately, judging by the number of comments on blogs and forums.

I did not notice that. Thanks.

[Mayo]

I think that private registration is a must these days and worth every penny. If you don't use private registration you can expect to receive a ton of spam at the e-mail address you provide when you register a domain.

[tacit]

I think that private registration is a must these days and worth every penny. If you don't use private registration you can expect to receive a ton of spam at the e-mail address you provide when you register a domain.

There is, however, one very, very serious problem to private domain registration.

ICANN, the organization that assigns and monitors domain name registrations, requires that every domain name "whois" have the correct and current contact information for the registered domain owner. Domains that don't can be canceled.

So when you get a "private" domain registration, technically speaking, you don't own the domain name. The proxy service that does the registration owns it. They act as a prxy on your behalf to register the name, but technically it belongs to them, not to you.

Normally, this is no big deal. If you want to move registrars or transfer the domain or whatever, then they'll do it without a fuss.

But every now and then, it explodes dramatically, as in the Registerfly debacle.

Registerfly is a former domain name registrar and Web host that recently imploded on itself, after the owners accused one another of embezzlement and fraud, and the company stopped registering domain names properly. ICANN revoked their registrar status. It's a huge mess--customers are suing Registerfly for fraud and breach of contract, the owners are suing each other, many customers who were hosting at Registerfly saw their sites go down, it's quite spectacular.

Anyway, hundreds of thousands of Registerfly customers started leaving Registerfly like rats streaming from a sinking ship, and moving their domain registration to other registrars. But Registerfly is refusing to transfer many domain names that were registered privately. The people who own them? Screwed. Most of them may never get their domains back...because Registerfly is the legal owner of the domains. When you register privately, you're not the legal owner; the proxy service or registrar is.

[Francine Eisner]

Tacit, that is quite a story. It reminds me of the situation that musicians sometimes find themselves in. There are all kinds of royalties they can collect in different venues and media for music that they've written and/or recorded. It's quite complicated. My Ex, Jeremy, was signed up with several companies to administer his royalties. I'm not certain, but I think it's possible that you can administer your own royalties, but apparently few people do this.

Some of the companies who administer the royalties are corrupt, and while they may collect the royalties the musicians never get paid. One of the companies that he signed with to administer his mechanical royalties, AMRA, was very honest, but a one-woman operation. The lady retired and the company was sold, and then sold a second time to a real wheeler-dealer based in California. This one turned out to be a complete crook. I discovered this because...you guessed it: Jeremy stopped receiving any checks, when in previous years his checks totaled anywhere from $3000 to $10,000.

The new owner didn't return my phone calls or respond to my letters asking that Jeremy be released from his agreement with the company. Although this agreement was with the previous owner, it was still binding, apparently. What I did manage to do was to contact all of the agencies (many of whom were overseas) which had been paying royalties to him over the previous 30 years, asking that they withhold payment to anyone, pending our investigation of the matter. This was a massive undertaking, and I was successful. I received many letters agreeing to withhold payment. So the company owner couldn't pilfer this money, and in the interim we didn't get it, either. I finally did get a really nasty letter from the her of course!

The trouble was that the original contract stated that the owner of the (company had the right to administer each property in perpetuity, until she was willing to give up that right. Hard to believe, but true. Eventually she did give up these rights, because she ran the company into the ground and just didn't want it anymore. Oh...forgot to mention that I contacted some other musicians who were signed with her. Some (the most famous) said they thought they were getting all of their royalties, and others said they definitely were not, but were too busy or not particularly disposed to do anything about it. Presumably she thought Jeremy was of the latter category (He was), and easy to prey upon.

I have no idea if Jeremy has been able to collect royalties on his tunes since then. We were going to sue, but we split up 5 years ago, so who knows what happened...?

Cheers,
Francine

[krissel]

Thanks tacit, I've pondered whether it was worth the extra money. Think I'll leave things as they are.

[Gregg]

If ther's typing mistakes, my apologies in advance, I've tried to see if the middle finger of my left hand can do without a knuckle today, so things are rough right now.

Do you have a photo clearly showing just that finger?

How hard will it be for her to get control of the name back?

Ask Ray Donovan. Maybe he figured it out.
Oh, maybe it wasn't his "good name" but his "reputation"?

[Mayo]

Verrry interesting Tacit... I have never considered the implications of the private registration services.

I have sent GoDaddy a detailed query that quotes your post verbatim along with some questions of my own... namely, how are my privately registered domains "insured against loss" as claimed in GoDaddy's private registration FAQ?

I'll get back to you when I receive a reply...

[Paddy]

All of Registerfly's registered domains have been transferred to GoDaddy. The private registrations have also been taken care of (or so it appears)

http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2007/05/...ly_domains.html

http://www.lockergnome.com/nexus/usrbingee...es-transferred/

http://help.godaddy.com/article.php?articl...mp;topic_id=534

Private registration for a site that is not an e-commerce site has advantages I'm not about to give up. (To have private registration for an e-commerce site is a good way to invite distrust, because that's what scammers often do too!)

Either way, it's obviously rather important to make sure that you register your domain with a reputable, well-established registrar who has been in business a good long time. Also, it's probably not a good idea to register your domain "free" through your hosting company as part of a hosting package unless they're on ICANN's list of accredited top level domain registrars, or you really don't care if you have problems down the road. There have been tales of woe from those who have done this and when they decide to move registrars/hosting, been given a real runaround. And typically, the registration alone, without the bundled hosting is substantially more than you'd pay through a registrar like GoDaddy.

[Mayo]

My apologies for not replying sooner... I received a reply from GoDaddy on 9/3, less than 24 hours after I queried them, but I've been a tad busy the past few days.

From GoDaddy:

If I buy a private domain name from Domains By Proxy, will I still be listed as its registrant?

First, Domains By Proxy is not a registrar so you cannot purchase a domain name directly from us. However, you can purchase a private domain registration through our affiliated registrars, all of which are ICANN-certified. Second, when you purchase a private domain name registration, Domains By Proxy becomes the registrant of the domain registration. Even though Domains By Proxy is the registrant, you retain the FULL BENEFITS OF DOMAIN REGISTRATION. This means that only you can:
Cancel, sell or transfer your domain registration.
Cancel our service so that registrant status reverts to you
Renew your domain registration upon expiration
Designate the name servers to which your domain points
Resolve claims arising out of a dispute involving your domain registration
The benefit of this arrangement is that the Whois directory publishes Domains By Proxy's name, postal address, and phone number instead of YOUR name, postal address, e-mail and phone number.

The statement seems clear enough to me. No doubt Tacit will find one or more possible legal loopholes and/or ambiguities in the above... Having read the entire GoDaddy Domains By Proxy agreement I have not found any language resembling the corporate legalese in the original post. I am confident that a good attorney (and I have very, very good lawyers...) can use the information provided by GoDaddy to convince the court that the customer retains all rights to the domain name while Domains By Proxy is merely acting as an agent for the domain owner. I would be willing to bet that a summary judgment in favor of the customer would be the likely outcome of such a dispute.

I, for one, find the benefits of private registration too important to give up based on the fear of every possible (but not necessarily probable...) twist and turn of life.

[chriskleeman]

Hmm... got to wondering now about the WHOIS part of all this...

I just got a message from my Hosting Provider and now Registration Service Provider, IPowerWeb (bundled) about making sure that my domain and billing information was correct for ICANN

Looks to me that the Registrant and the Domain name are one and the same? This thread has left me shivering a bit about all this...

What a mess this can turn into if you're not careful!

Chris K